This new genealogists all of the contemplate it high one Nicholas’ wife Clementia are incorporated right here due to the fact, under typical points, she’d not mentioned. Whenever Susanna from the some afterwards big date received over to yet another protector, new spouse of that protector wasn’t said.
This would imply that Queen John spent a while here and the potential for an enthusiastic amorous liaison having Clementia is obtainable
What follows listed here is a principle state-of-the-art by the specific eminent genealogists, however it is reasonable to state that the new conclusions are hotly competitive!
Which idea results in a great and interested ‘twist’ regarding tale out of Joanna, that could focus fans out-of HBD!
On top, there would be nothing to highly recommend people connection within hostage, Susanna from Wales and Clementia, partner away from Nicholas de- Verdun. However, the experience of particular genealogists with overseas hostages, such young ones, might have been that they was often placed which have household members, if any were readily available.
Bouncing forward to 1236, there’s an entry from the Tewkesbury annals which pertains to Joanna’s mommy since “Queen Clemencie!” They checks out partly:
Today, it is known that the mother from Joanna was called Clementia (Clemence?
In this case the newest monk is actually obviously indulging from inside the gothic legalism. Prior to their unique dying, Joanna is legitimised of the Pope. On the basis of one to legitimisation, the newest Tewksbury monk plainly took it abreast of himself to elevate Joanna’s mommy towards the condition regarding Queen, since if their particular mother was King John’s wife! It is a fact although not, that King John and Clementia had been never ever partnered. By the dealing with Joanna’s mother because “Queen” nydelige sexy Vietnamesisk kvinner Clementia, this new monk whom submitted Joanna’s dying is actually exhibiting his extreme respect getting Joanna, yet not attempting to change the correct products.
As for the name out-of Clementia de- Verdun, Paget suggests that she are brand new daughter out-of Roger de Dauntsey, away from Wiltshire. You to genealogist considers they significant you to definitely Clementia hailed away from Wiltshire due to the fact they have realized that Queen John had a robust accessory so you’re able to one county, they being the home regarding their best allies, the Longespee, ilies and you will Geoffrey Fitz Peter.
Genealogists found that identity ‘Clementia’ are most uncommon among English noblewomen with the period. In a single table off ladies names which was obtained, there were just a couple situations of identity “Clementia” out of all in all, 1407 women in the try! The truth that anybody titled Clementia is of this Susanna is known as extreme.
Therefore! The data was suggestive, yet not conclusive, that in the 1228, Susanna, once the good hostage, got out to the new care of their particular maternal grandmother, today spouse away from Nicholas de- Verdun!!
The newest Scottish genealogists of your MacDuffs’ keep that Susanna ferch Llywelyn was given birth to 1214 in the Gwynnedd, Wales and you will died c. 1259 inside Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She hitched Malcolm MacDuff, Earl regarding Fife in the 1230 and had a couple of youngsters: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl away from Fife, created 1245, passed away 1270 and MacDuff MacDuff created 1247.
Definitely, discover restrict arguments to all or any this supposition! King John got of numerous mistresses and perhaps as many as eight illegitimate college students. The caretaker from Joanna could have been born circa 1172 and you will marriageable circa 1184. Joanna herself was created circa 1191 (14 yrs old during the time of their unique wedding so you can Llywelyn). Rohese, the fresh identified genuine child out-of Nicholas de- Verdun along with his partner Clementia was created circa 1210-1213. When the Clementia was mom regarding Joanna, she would can be found in their own late 30’s, early 40’s whenever giving birth so you’re able to Rohese! Maybe not impossible, certain say, however, unlikely.